PIERRE WOODMAN wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 25, 2023 4:13 pm

What's happened now with Wagner group is a sign something is not working good between Putin and his army. I hope maybe it can be a good advise for him it's time to stop the war. Enough innocent people have lost their lives ...

News update, the unrest is over, Wagner leader Prigozhin resigned and moved to Belarus, Wagner troops are back in the battle, no casualties in Russia.

Do you also know that Ukraine now catches every man on the streets and send them into the battlefield, whether or not they're fit to serve, let alone fight. They just send their people to their deaths because they no longer have people fit to fight. So who is the bad guy here?

Im sorry but there is nothing strange about forced conscription when your nation is being invaded. You must be aware of a little history - Stalin was pretty infamous for orders related to refusing to fight. This just seems like whataboutism. If my country was invaded and needed the manpower I would find it strange if conscription did not happen.

Almost all countries have Nazis at some level. How many Ukraine has and how much influence they wield is up for debate. I would believe its not as bad as was claimed at 1st by supporters of the invasion. A country invading another sovereign nation I believe has the burden to proof they are not the bad guy. USAs justification to invade iraq the 2nd time was bad and so is Russias now in my opiniom.

You have to remember that it was Ukraine that started war actions against ITS OWN people when they refused to be part of their country when they coup happened. For eight years they have been bombing and killing their own people, most of whom were Russians since it was one country. Russia asked for eight years to stop the war peacefully, to sign certain agreement, but nothing happened. And as soon as Zelensky said that Ukraine should have a nuclear bomb and drop it on Russia, it was after that that Russia started military operation. I've talked to people from those regions, they're eternally grateful for what Russia is doing for them.

And if you dig a little further into history, USA, Great Britain and pretty much all of European countries have been invading other countries and robbing them, trying to get their resources, some of them still do, but not as openly as before. While Russia has always been a big piece of cake everyone's trying to get throughout the history (France with Napoleon, Germany with Hitler, Polish-Lithuanian army during 17th century, Tatar-Mongolian army conquered Russia, but they defeated it nonetheless, Sweden tried to attack Russia, but Alexander Nevsky defeated it). And of course Hillary Clinton admitted they started a war in Afghanistan in order for USSR to break up. So if you think if Russia is the biggest evil on Earth, think again and learn some history

I accept this issue isnt black and white. I was merely strongly arguing your point that Ukraine is the bad guy for doing conscriptions. Its why I evoked history - Russia and every large nation has done the same when under attack. Its normal.

I also accept many other nations have done similar 'bad' things in the past. Its why I used USA invading Iraq as an example. Both bad in my eyes/ As for justification, I know many Russians feel that they are doing the right thing.

But you have to question the methods. Them invading Ukraine has killed so many more people than the alleged bombings ever did. So we have to disagree that those deaths were waraned. I speak to many Ukrainians (6+) online that I met before this conflict. They are united in defence of their homeland, every one denies the charges that Russia has made against them and now Wagner chief as similarly put doubt on Russias objectives in this war.

I have also met many Russians in my job as an IT contractor and they were all great people. So I have nothing against Russians just dont agree with invading and killing citizens of another country for the reasons given.

It's not conscription that's happening in Ukraine, it's literally sending people to their certain death. There's no way to survive Russian attacks unless people in the front surrender. There's a new documentary now where Ukrainians say that their government doesn't care about them, they just need for this conflict to go on. They just use their own people as cannon fodder, that's what I'm trying to say. They literally catch people on the street and grab them as if they're dangerous criminals. People who will be sent into the battle will die, that's a fact. Russia has always given chance to surrender peacefully, with chance of keeping territories they have now, but they refuse, and Ukraine gets smaller and smaller. They use both young and old, both sick and healthy people, and they will be sent to death. There's simply no chance that Ukraine will win, I just hope I'm not the only one here who sees it. Even USA says that they've practically run out of the weapons they can send

Most invaders from history give the chance to surrender peacefully. When Hitler attacked Russia. Russia could have saved so many lives by surrendering but they did not. They sacrificed huge numbers to keep their freedom. Spartans are remembered for their heroic resistance also.

Currently this just looks like a frozen conflict. So neither Russia or Ukraine is meeting its objectives any time soon. Russia taking any more land will also need alot of Russian lives. And dont forget Russian lives are also being lost just defending their current gains. You think that those losses are worth it?

You forget, Hitler's goal was to dominate Russia and probably the whole Europe. Russia's goal is to save its people on the territory of Ukraine and to stop Ukraine from killing other people as well, and after that Ukraine might exist within the borders it has left. Big difference. Russia didn't need other territories, they wanted safety for their people. But no, Ukraine keeps fighting. And yes, Russian people die, but a lot of them volunteered, nobody forced them into this, it was their conscious choice, whereas in Ukraine they send people to certain death. So you can't compare it to Hitler

Im sorry but there is nothing strange about forced conscription when your nation is being invaded.

True it has always been like that in all world !!!

Most invaders from history give the chance to surrender peacefully. When Hitler attacked Russia. Russia could have saved so many lives by surrendering but they did not. They sacrificed huge numbers to keep their freedom. Spartans are remembered for their heroic resistance also.

True also !!!

In any case you can't compare Putin and Hitler because they have completly different motivations.
I have always said and still think if Putin wanted invade Ukrain he will never have wait 22 years or even 14 if we consider the Crimea in 2014. If you look at all in detail it happened always after a specific action from West countries.
I'm not trying defend Putin, I am against wars, but I am not blind like sadly many people want to be ...


PW

PIERRE WOODMAN wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 26, 2023 10:02 am

Im sorry but there is nothing strange about forced conscription when your nation is being invaded.

True it has always been like that in all world !!!

Most invaders from history give the chance to surrender peacefully. When Hitler attacked Russia. Russia could have saved so many lives by surrendering but they did not. They sacrificed huge numbers to keep their freedom. Spartans are remembered for their heroic resistance also.

True also !!!

In any case you can't compare Putin and Hitler because they have completly different motivations.
I have always said and still think if Putin wanted invade Ukrain he will never have wait 22 years or even 14 if we consider the Crimea in 2014. If you look at all in detail it happened always after a specific action from West countries.
I'm not trying defend Putin, I am against wars, but I am not blind like sadly many people want to be ...


PW

It's one thing to defend its country for a chance of freedom, and there's completely different thing to fight for a lost cause and send people to their death with no chance of winning. I repeat, Ukraine would have stayed free and independent had it stopped murdering its people and hadn't tried to get into NATO and EU. The main condition of Ukrainian independence in the first place was neutral status, which it's trying to violate. Here's the result. Mark my words, Russia will win this conflict, and not because I support it or believe in it, it's just how it's gonna go. I'll be here when you see that