Spiderdog wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:39 am
Depuis le début on lit et on entends pas mal de conneries et de contre vérités !! Pendant la guerre froides les pays de l'est étaient tous sous l'emprise du pacte de Varsovie et n'avaient aucun moyens de désobéir aux Russes ou de songer a être indépendant sous peine de repressions sanglantes , on ne peut pas demander a des pays traumatisés par 60 ans de repressions et de prises en otage par les Russes du jour au lendemain pour satisfaire la sécurité de ces messieurs Russes en mal de d'espace vital d'accepter de rester neutre et sans défense , car peuvent-ils vraiment avoir confiance en la politique Russe de respecter leur intégrité ? L'histoire a montré a plusieurs reprises que les Russes ont toujours cherchés a conquérir la Pologne et les pays frontaliers sans aucun égard , alors quand on parle de l'OTAN et des américains comme des démons faut aussi se mettre dans la tête des Polonais , Ukrainiens , Estoniens , etc .. qui ont au fil des siècles du subir la répression russe ! Alors bien sur les américains s'engouffrent dans la brèche , mais à part l'OTAN quel autre choix avaient ces pays pour se défendre face à l'appétit Russe , il y a aucune autre Alliance possible !
Qu'on me parle pas de neutralité car c'est une vaste blague , aucun pays neutre à part la Suisse n'a jamais été respecté , la belgique etait neutre et 2 fois les Allemands l'ont envahis et c'est le ca pour pleins d'autres et on ne fera pas croire aux gens que la neutralité de l'Ukraine aurait été respectée c'est une vaste blague ! Les Russes c'est comme les Français , ils n'ont jamais respectés le moindre traité !
Yes, it must have been the Russians who were in Warsaw in 1610? Was it the "Russians" who ravaged Moscow in the early 17th century? And only the unity of the Russian people helped drive the Poles from the Russian land!
Ukraine was never independent until 1991 and these territories were so called only as sovereign territories of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union. And tell me Spiderdog, who was in Kiev and most of modern Ukraine in 1920? Ah, probably the Poles. Have you forgotten? What were they doing there? The Poles were constantly ravaging the territories of modern-day Ukraine in the 17th century. Read who Bogdan Khmelnitsky was for self-education. And the German occupation of the territory of Ukraine in the early 20th century and then in the middle of the 20th century? Have you also forgotten? And Western Ukraine, in general, belonged to the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Have you forgotten too? The Turks ravaged the Crimea and the territories of the North Caucasus.
Estonia did not exist as an independent state until it was granted statehood by Soviet Russia. These were German principalities, and then principalities within the Russian Empire. All that Estonia is now is a legacy of the Soviet Union, which invested a lot of money in the development of the Estonian SSR. Estonia regained its independence in 1991. And, what, they are just burning through all the legacy of the Soviet past. They have not built anything in 30 years of independence, except a rabid Russophobia. The Baltic states are a plague on the body of the European Union, they are fully subsidized countries, subsidized by the major economies of the European Union. Today's Estonia is a poor country with a constant population drain.
I have written many times in this thread about the alleged Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe and the reasons and the historical background to it. I do not want to repeat it. All that you say is not true in many respects. And any problems, they are always and everywhere. Now there is more instability in your countries, people are being beaten up in the streets by cops, for some reason you don't call it repression...
Don't forget also Spiderdog, answer yourself, what happened to all the indigenous people in Canada where you live now? I'll answer for you. You wiped it out!!!
Russia, at least it didn't wipe out the various ethnic populations in the territories it annexed. All nationalities are now living fine on the territory of the multinational Russian state. You destroyed all ethnic groups of the indigenous population of the territories you now live in!
Your misfortune Spiderdog that you do not know shit about world history, or you deliberately distort it!!!