bibijones wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:33 pm

M Vitaly,

Tout ce que je vois actuellement, c'est que 3 millions d'Ukrainiens ont fuit leur pays et ce n'est pas en direction de la Russie.
De plus, quand ils arrivent chez nous, c'est pas pour faire les louanges de Poutine !

О беженцах.
Из этих 3 миллионов беженцев, действительно есть много семей, которые просто боятся войны, это естественно. Но они в основном из Киева и Западной Украины, которую пока никто не трогает.
Среди беженцев, которые пришли к вам, есть и такие:
https://youtu.be/lYo-IUaivCk.
В Польше новый беженец с Украины. Это нацист и участник националистического батальона "Азов"
и такие...
Венгерские таможенники задержали на границе жену бывшего депутата Верховной Рады Украины Игоря Котвицкого, которого называют правой рукой бывшего министра внутренних дел Арсена Авакова. Женщина ввезла в Венгрию несколько чемоданов с незадекларированными деньгами. В чемоданах Анастасии Котвицкой находилось 28 миллионов долларов и 1,3 миллиона евро.
А также люди, которые уже создали преступные группы и занимаются преступностью в Германии (мужчины призывного возраста, кстати).
Все люди, которые к вам пришли, не привиты, ни от Ковида, ни от Кори, ни от Туберкулеза. Зеленский изображает из себя президента "свободного мира", не позаботился о своем народе во время пандемии, потому что Украина была самой коррумпированной и нищей страной в Европе. Около 3 миллионов украинцев работали в России до войны и остаются в России сейчас. Им не нужно никуда бежать. А в Европу люди из Украины бежали на работу миллионами, когда еще не было никаких конфликтов.
Из городов, где идут настоящие бои: Мариуполя, городов Донецкой и Луганской областей, люди бегут в Россию, где им помогают. В Херсонской и Запорожской областях, которые находятся под контролем Российской Федерации, начинается посевная, и люди живут в обычном режиме.

About refugees.
Of these 3 million refugees, there are indeed many families who are simply afraid of war, it's natural. But they're mostly from Kiev and Western Ukraine, which no one has touched yet.
Among the refugees who have come to you, there are some:
https://youtu.be/lYo-IUaivCk.
There is a new refugee from Ukraine in Poland. He is a Nazi and a member of the Azov nationalist battalion.
and such

Hungarian customs officers detained at the border the wife of a former deputy of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Igor Kotvitsky, who is called the right hand of former Interior Minister Arsen Avakov. The woman brought into Hungary several suitcases with undeclared money. The suitcases of Anastasia Kotvitskaya contained $28 million and €1.3 million.
And also people who have already set up criminal groups and are engaged in crime in Germany (men of conscription age, by the way).
All the people who came to you have not been vaccinated, not for Covid, not for Cory, not for TB. Zelensky portrays himself as the president of the "free world," did not take care of his people during the pandemic because Ukraine was the most corrupt and destitute country in Europe. About 3 million Ukrainians worked in Russia before the war and remain in Russia now. They don't need to flee anywhere. And people from Ukraine fled to Europe to work in the millions when there were no conflicts yet.
From cities where there is real fighting: Mariupol, cities in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, people are fleeing to Russia, where they have help. In Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, which are under Russian Federation control, the sowing season is beginning, and people are living as usual.

Oh dear, the Kremlin propaganda machine is back.

Thats a great fairy tale for the kids of Russia. Putin might hire you full time if you have more of those gems.

For those of us with small brains we might have thought the country that bombs children hospitals , ruining entire cities , forcing millions to leave their homes without being attacked first was the bully so great that you made it clear USA is the villain here. You might have to drop the prostitutes part in a fairy tale for children though but it made no sense anyway.

Perso, j'avais entendu parler de ce conte pour enfant... Par contre dans mes souvenirs, c'était plutôt l'histoire d'une femme qui avait été obligée de fuir un mari possessif et violent et qu'elle avait trouvé refuge chez ces voisins.

bibijones wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:54 pm

Perso, j'avais entendu parler de ce conte pour enfant... Par contre dans mes souvenirs, c'était plutôt l'histoire d'une femme qui avait été obligée de fuir un mari possessif et violent et qu'elle avait trouvé refuge chez ces voisins.

Скорее, она пошла к соседу, торговать собой...

Rather, she went to her neighbor's house to peddle herself...

Perso, j'avais entendu parler de ce conte pour enfant... Par contre dans mes souvenirs, c'était plutôt l'histoire d'une femme qui avait été obligée de fuir un mari possessif et violent et qu'elle avait trouvé refuge chez ces voisins.

oui vu comme ça c'est marrant mais franchement la vérité est un peu différente. Je pense vraiment que les gens devraient juste regarder le film d'Oliver Stone avec un sens objectif des choses et basta ...

Mais peu importe le fond de l'histoire, je considère que beaucoup trop de sang a coulé et que cette guerre doit se finir au plus vite.

PW

Mais peu importe le fond de l'histoire, je considère que beaucoup trop de sang a coulé et que cette doit guerre Se finir au plus vite.

Absolument d'accord. En espérant que les négociation en Turquie débouchent sur quelque chose de positif.

bibijones wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:29 pm

Mais peu importe le fond de l'histoire, je considère que beaucoup trop de sang a coulé et que cette doit guerre Se finir au plus vite.

Absolument d'accord. En espérant que les négociation en Turquie débouchent sur quelque chose de positif.

Exactly. I dont claim to be an expert on the conflict in Eastern Ukraine. I dont think Oliver Stone movie is objective though with the focus on Ukraine nazis and forgetting the reason a lot of people was happy the germans came at first. Nothing mentioned about why with the brutal way Stalin treated Ukraine with starvation etc that they would welcome anybody not named Stalin to liberate them. No critical questions to Putin from Oliver Stone at any point.

There are two extreme narratives and I dont like either.

1) Putin is a Htiler clone invading other countires to protect russian speaking minorities in Ukraine and other places like Hitler started in Sudetenland 1938 with claims to protect germans in Czechoslovakia . And like Hitler Putin is then coming for the rest of the country and then the rest of Europe.

2) Ukraine is some Nazi infested country

I dont like extremism if its far left , far right , religious extremism or extreme nationalism.

Whatever was going on in the east of Ukraine the truth is probaly not that there are only extreme ukrainian nationalist groups like Azovon one side and Russia totally innocent and not pulling strings on the other side with the russian, anti-government separatist groups.

But anyways Russia was not under any kind of serious threat and had to act like this now in the rest of Ukraine. Ukraine or NATO was obvioulsy not going to touch a single inch of territory of a nuclear power like Russia.

They wont listen to Zelensky now when he ask NATO to enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine becasue that will quickly lead to direct conflict between Russia and NATO and thats not an option. Not seen any parlament in Europe Zelensky has asked that has even considered supporting that.


No matter how you look at the conflict in the east of the country the invasion of Ukraine in 2022 is horrible and unjustified and condemned by just about the entire world for good reason. And hopefully its over very soon.