El Major wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:38 pm

The hypocrisy is amazing here. Russian trolls can come in here and call Jean basically a nazi but be so easily offendend and hurt and preach how people are not smart enough to discuss your elite mature level when just a couple of pages ago have posted threats with russian nuclear bombs which Pierre thinks is ok it seems. And to top it off talk about how europeans dont understand whats going on when in your own country you risk getting thrown in jail for years if you even talk about the war and you have non stop propaganda with lunatcis on tv talking about bombing England etc.

Here is a thought. After months of garbage maybe Jean had enough

Please show, where a member called another member a Nazi and I withdraw my my shelter from blame.

MVitaly5 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:56 pm

Ivan_IV wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 17, 2023 12:03 pm

.. To me the american won. China and India will also be among the great "winners" of that war. Ukraine, Russia and Europe will stand among losers of that conflict...

I partly agree, partly disagree!
The US, after completely enslaving the EU countries and other vassals by methodically ruining them, does have a positive balance here. BUT, in the US itself, the situation is extremely unstable on all fronts. The corrupt clan of the Biden family, which currently supports Ukraine because it has huge corrupt ties to that country. Yes, initially they had more global plans to do critical damage to Russia; economically, politically, socially and militarily. But all of those plans went awry. And it is already obvious, so now everything is based on trivial personal interest, but rather dependence on the "Ukrainian issue" of the Biden family. Moreover, I do not claim that the policy towards Russia will somehow change with the arrival of other political forces in the United States. It doesn't matter who will dominate power there; Democrats or Republicans. Keeping Russia, and not only Russia, from developing, is their conceptual plan, and has absolute political consensus. Another very important aspect is the rapidly growing internal contradictions in the US itself in the social, economic and political spheres. I think the US, is very close to a serious civil conflict that could cost it extremely dearly. There are sharp contradictions between whole layers of the population on the ethnic issue, on the migrant issue, and on the "Krainian issue" as well. The poverty rate in the U.S. is skyrocketing, and their incomes have long been out of balance with their spending. And then everything else will fall apart. Therefore, the US has very serious problems in the future. But in the end it will not help the European Union and Ukraine, the latter will be in the loss in any case.
As for Russia, it is also very relative. On the one hand, a country that is engaged in military operations, and when people die, cannot a priori enjoy it. But important aspects play a huge role here: social and economic. Socially, the Russian people, for the most part, understand what they are fighting for, and that they are waging war in their critical, existential interests. Therefore, the effect of the war on people's mood is strongly offset in a positive way. Secondly, historically, Russia, came out of many troubles with benefits for themselves. The peculiarity of the mentality of the Russian people, sometimes needs some kind of "shaking" or "stressful situation", which, coupled with conceptual rightness and a sense of justice of their actions, makes people unite, concentrate on the tasks at hand, self-organize. Relaxation of people has always harmed Russia. And when people have a just goal and idea, Russia cannot be defeated. This is the main strategic mistake of the collective West, that it judges Russians by themselves. In the West, the main aspect of people's mentality is their personal egocentrism and their personal well-being, while Russians have always had the well-being of the whole country in the first place, with personal interest in second place. Despite the fact that the country is fighting, Russia in 2022 became the richest country in Europe, according to the most important indicator of GDP in purchasing power parity. It is this indicator that most correctly and correctly reflects the well-being of the average person in the state. Even the World Bank, which is absolutely unfair and biased towards Russia, has already confirmed this.



The main loser in this whole story will be the stupid European Union. And they have only themselves to blame!!!

I don't deny that the russian economy will perform better than most western countries expected. The IMF predictions are quite clear. In fact, I meant that russian federation will be more and more dependant from china as long as that war is still lasting. Moreover, friendly relations between ukraine and russian federation are damaged for several generations... Not especially a thing Putin wanted initially.

Ivan_IV wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:15 pm

I don't deny that the russian economy will perform better than most western countries expected. The IMF predictions are quite clear. In fact, I meant that russian federation will be more and more dependant from china as long as that war is still lasting. Moreover, friendly relations between ukraine and russian federation are damaged for several generations... Not especially a thing Putin wanted initially.

You see, the countries that depend on someone are those that have nothing; production, resources, or political will and sovereignty.
Russia has all this. Now the Russian economy is aimed at creating new production chains, especially for critical and strategically important goods. And production is growing constantly, with new enterprises opening every day. The growth of the economy, in conditions of unprecedented pressure from the collective West, speaks for itself. Russia is fully self-sufficient in food, and is even one of the leading exporters in the world. Strategically important resources and energy resources are provided with a large reserve. Demographic problems are being solved, not quickly, as we would like, but still, efforts are being made to stimulate the birth rate. Political will is aimed at absolute sovereignty. The army is one of the best in the world. There is no suggestion of any dependence on anyone. This is logic!
As for China, it needs Russia no less, and in the future perhaps even more than Russia needs China. China is surrounded by enemies, and it understands perfectly well that the next target of the hegemonic ambitions of the US and its vassals is China itself! And the real strong ally it can lean on is only Russia. China has an economic war ahead with the collective West, and the issue of Taiwan will be resolved. It is extremely disadvantageous for China to quarrel with Russia. Another important aspect is that historically China has never had global ambitions like the U.S. or the USSR. They don't have this practice, and it has been cultivated over the years with the mentality of people. The Chinese don't have that mentality, they are traders. And economic power, without political and military ambition, will not give global hegemony. Here is an example, in the 90's in Russia there was a serious crisis after the collapse of the USSR. In Russia, there were heightened fears that China would begin expansion into the Far Eastern regions of Russia. China had a lot of opportunities for this at that time. And China did nothing about it. And now it is simply not even hypothetically realistic. Because China does not need it, and Russia will not allow it, and China understands it perfectly well. So, equal partnership is the real prospect for the development of relations between Russia and China. Especially since the stupid and greedy policy of the collective West fully contributes to this.

Just a quick update from a girl in Ukraine:
"And Zelenskyy no wanna find some compromise with Putin.. this is sad, soon women go to military from 1 October "

Seems that at least some people in Ukraine would like to see some form of negotiation with Russia in order to get a kind of peace. Will see how that plays out.

Bobby wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:28 pm

Just a quick update from a girl in Ukraine:
"And Zelenskyy no wanna find some compromise with Putin.. this is sad, soon women go to military from 1 October "

Seems that at least some people in Ukraine would like to see some form of negotiation with Russia in order to get a kind of peace. Will see how that plays out.

With Zenlenkys „fighting for every square inch of the old territory“ he will be the one destroying the ukrainian peoples more than russian army ever could.

What I, as a citizen of a western country, am very ashamed of is that „we“ are supporting him in this stupid fight with weapons. This war is a proxy war of the USA and the ukrainians do not even recognise that they are send to death because of people thinking in the old east-west-scheme and for US-agriculture companies, which, before the conflict, held over 33% of ukrainian farming area.

What the Ukrainians need is peace. That means: Recognising of new borders when regions voted for getting to russia + staying out of NATO and EU.

In my humble opinion a big issue is the half assed support by the "West".

The West sends money and weapons and the Ukrainians are doing the dying. Without western support the war would be already long time over.
With proper western support the war would also be over, one way or the over. Because the West could say to Russia: "Leave Ukraine or we nuke Moscow" and then follow through with it......

But likely we will see Ukrainian people dying for a long time, and the West makes sure the dying is contained to the Ukraine and keeps it going as a fight for democracy ....

Bobby wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:43 am

In my humble opinion a big issue is the half assed support by the "West".

The West sends money and weapons and the Ukrainians are doing the dying. Without western support the war would be already long time over.
With proper western support the war would also be over, one way or the over. Because the West could say to Russia: "Leave Ukraine or we nuke Moscow" and then follow through with it......

"or we will bomb Moscow."
Bomb Moscow with what? By farting steam out of fear so that everyone in Moscow suffocates from the stench?
And seriously, I apologize, but with all due respect, your reasoning is extremely naive. I admit that you are not a military man, but still you should have an elementary notion and imagine the consequences of such a step and realize these consequences. You cannot understand that Russia is not Libya, without advanced air defense, aviation, radar systems, anti-satellite weapons, hypersonic weapons, and without the world's most technologically advanced nuclear arsenal, both strategic and tactical - the nuclear triad! Well, how do you imagine "bombing Moscow"? Or do you think that NATO will say: "We will bomb Moscow, Russia must fulfill our demands and surrender"? And, after that, Russia will say: "Okay, we are scared, and that's it - we surrender, take everything away from us!" Is that how you envision it? Or do you really suppose that NATO will start to strike Russia? Well, in that case, you should first of all order yourself a nice coffin in advance. Or do you think that there will be no retaliation?
Now let us touch on specifics and details. Do you realize that when any NATO military aircraft takes off, even near Russia's borders, fighter jets are instantly launched to intercept it, air defense and radar systems are deployed. Do you think your pilots have had enough of life? Or do you really want to launch a nuclear strike on Russia? And the radioactive ash that will be left from the USA and Europe doesn't stop you? I'm not talking about the fact that the entire NATO nuclear arsenal is obsolete. In the U.S., Minuteman and Trident missiles were put into service during the Cold War with the Soviet Union, and after that they were not practically modernized. Hypersonic carriers, you have only at the stage of testing. Recently on English television, they showed the launch pits for launching ballistic nuclear missiles, and everything there is covered with rust! After the collapse of the USSR, you fell into euphoria, and completely relaxed, sometimes destroying countries that can not answer you.
Of course, nuclear weapons, no matter what technical state they are in, are in any case dangerous, and no one wants to test them on themselves, and in principle such a development. But let's even hypothetically imagine that NATO launches a nuclear strike on Moscow, and even, let's imagine the worst case scenario for Russia, destroys the decision-making center. First, in such cases, provided for, several backup decision-making centers, and other options for action, (I will not disclose classified information), and secondly, since the Soviet era, there is an automatic system "Perimeter", in the West it is called "Dead Hand". In short, it is an automatic system, to activate the entire nuclear triad of Russia (strategic submarine missile carriers, land-based ballistic missiles, strategic airborne missile carriers), and even in the loss of the main command, the automatic delivery of a massive nuclear retaliatory strike against the enemy. That is, in any case, it is guaranteed mutual destruction!
You understand that any such development is like a "nightmare" for the U.S. and NATO, and for the rest of the world. They avoid and fear such a development in every possible way. In Ukraine, they shout to the whole world that they, personally, do not participate in the war, but only help materially. And they always emphasize this. They are in absolutely no position now to give any ultimatums to Russia, they are losing this war, regardless of all their hyped military equipment, which they supply to Ukraine. All the "praised" NATO equipment: Challengers, Leopards, Bradleys, are burning like matches in Ukraine. Western representatives have already had to confirm this. Listen to adequate American military analysts. They directly say that their popularized F-35 aircraft depends entirely on satellite guidance. Destroy the satellite, and this plane turns into flying scrap metal, a target, and a coffin for the pilot. It's the same with nuclear missile guidance. Do you think that if NATO attacks Russia directly, the latter, which has anti-satellite weapons, will spare NATO satellites? Elon Musk is already afraid to provide services to his Starlink satellite group because they could suddenly be "hit by a meteor shower". The U.S. and NATO are even afraid to supply their missiles "ATACMS" and "TAURUS", with a range of 300 kilometers, because they know that Ukraine will specifically strike directly at the territory of Russia with these missiles. Though the USA and NATO of course in any case constantly impudence and testing patience of Russia, "demonizing" Putin, though, internally, perfectly understanding that he is a restrained and adequate person, and will not put the whole world in danger without an extreme reason. Only the U.S. and NATO are taking a huge risk by "pokerface", because one day Russia's patience may run out.
The entire calculation of the collective West in the war in Ukraine, was to economic sanctions and the creation of difficulties for Russia in the armed struggle in Ukraine, to shake Russia from within, to sow social unrest, because Russia can only be destroyed or weakened by Russia itself. An example of this is the collapse of the Soviet Union, so the West planned exactly the same scenario for Russia. But not a direct armed clash, they fear it like the Devil! Well, as we can all see, all the plans of the collective West in relation to Russia, went to waste, moreover, with great economic, military and most importantly image damage for themselves. The destruction of NATO's military equipment in Ukraine has sharply diminished the world's attitude to this popularized equipment. Shares of the companies producing this equipment fell sharply.
The US, after Vietnam, will go to war only when they absolutely do not risk a painful retaliation and when they are 100% sure of a positive result for themselves. I assure you that even if you imagine a situation where Russia strikes a NATO military base in Europe, the US will not send its soldiers to fight in Europe. They will come up with a thousand reasons not to use the notorious 5th amendment of the NATO charter. And their obedient vassals will quietly whimper to themselves, but dare not say anything to their master. Yes, the U.S. will help them with military equipment, money, will use all its media capabilities, will shriek all over the world about Russia's "aggression", but they will not go to war for Europe. Moreover, it is favorable for them to start a direct armed conflict in Europe, then they can fully focus on fighting China. And if Russia launches a tactical nuclear strike, they will clap their hands in happiness, because they do not care about the people in Europe, and then the U.S. will be able to cite this precedent to China, India, and other countries in the world that support Russia, how "evil" Russia is! The main thing for the scriptwriters in the U.S., so that the war in Europe, unleashed by them, did not hurt their island, where they used to feel safe. And this is unlikely, given the available in the modern world, hypersonic and long-range means of delivery of warheads of mass destruction. Herein lies the dangerous game the US is playing. Apart from grandiose ambitions to maintain hegemony in the world, the U.S. now lacks competent analysts, soberly and adequately assessing the real situation, influencing the decision-making of the rapidly degenerating power.
And it is a pity that many people do not understand all this neither in Europe nor in Ukraine ...

@MVitaly5

you are correct I am not a military expert and to be honest I am a German. Will say if I see a problem I try to find simple working solutions. In case of the Ukraine conflict if a country decides to support the Ukraine, the support should be helping to win fast and not to drag things on like a nether ending story.

Ok based on history the Germans burned half of Europe to the ground twice because they tried to win. So maybe my suggested course of action regarding the Ukraine should be treated with some caution.

But in principle I am not happy with the current situation and think the Cuba crises seemed to have worked nicely with the threat of a nuclear attack against Russia...... maybe worth a try

Bobby wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:32 pm

@MVitaly5

you are correct I am not a military expert and to be honest I am a German. Will say if I see a problem I try to find simple working solutions. In case of the Ukraine conflict if a country decides to support the Ukraine, the support should be helping to win fast and not to drag things on like a nether ending story.

Ok based on history the Germans burned half of Europe to the ground twice because they tried to win. So maybe my suggested course of action regarding the Ukraine should be treated with some caution.

But in principle I am not happy with the current situation and think the Cuba crises seemed to have worked nicely with the threat of a nuclear attack against Russia...... maybe worth a try

What about Cuba?
I won't go on at length, you can read about it. The so-called "Caribbean crisis" in 1962 ended with each side making concessions to the demands of the other side. The Soviet Union removed missiles from Cuba, and the US removed missiles from Turkey. Both sides decided that it was better to reach an agreement than to organize a nuclear catastrophe. And the US had a more powerful nuclear arsenal in 1962 than the USSR, and now the situation is exactly the opposite. So there are no losers or winners in that conflict! The winner is the world, that's the correct way to put it. That's brief, and first of all.
Secondly, in my opinion, it is very incorrect to compare the USA of that time and now. In the era of the "Cuban Missile Crisis", the US had a completely different political elite, much more professional and responsible, and now it is quite the opposite.

As for Germany, now you, as a German, may not read everything I write, it is your right. And in any case, it is up to you, as a German, to decide the fate of your country and your people.
But I'll say a few words. What Germany is turning into now. Once the locomotive of the European economy, a great nation, the power of which is represented by people who are destroying and humiliating Germany and the German people as a whole. A falling economy, the impression that it is not Russia that is waging war, but Germany! Only a fool can't understand who blew up Nord Stream-2, which was supposed to bring huge benefits to Germany. Now Germany buys natural gas from the same USA, but at a much higher price. And Scholz? Only pity and contempt. He looks like a "beaten dog", mumbles something, gives in to the U.S., which is happily rubbing its hands after a blatant act of international terrorism, and at the same time, in Germany, inflation, falling living standards, the famous German car industry is on the verge of bankruptcy, industry is leaving the country and a lot of other problems. And Scholz shouts that the main thing for Germany is to protect "democracy in Ukraine". And Germany itself since 2014, acted as a guarantor of normalization of the situation in Ukraine, but in fact supported the Nazi political regime in Ukraine, which organized genocide of its own population. After 8 years of diplomatic negotiations, when Russia asked the Western countries to influence the Ukrainian authorities not to destroy Russian and Ukrainian people in the Dombass, which eventually turned out to be the case. As Merkel herself admitted, all this time they were just deceiving Russia and pumping weapons into Ukraine. And when in 2022 Russia had to intervene to protect the poor people in Ukraine, who were being slaughtered with the connivance of the West, Germany began to openly support the Ukrainian regime, and, as it is now clear with great damage primarily to itself.
And this one, Berbock, a former trampoline jumper, who is the German Foreign Minister, who openly declared that she does not care about the opinion of Germans - her voters, the main thing is to support Ukraine against Russia. And she herself sometimes can't string two words together. Just recently, in her speech, she called instead of "Ukrainian grain" - "Cocaine grain". We can assume that she meant "Zelensky's grain", that drug addict , but most likely her intellectual level is just extremely low. Just like U. von der Leyen, who continues in her speeches to claim that Russia has already disassembled all washing machines in order to take out the chips and use them to make its missiles. Well, okay in Russia, just once again laughed at the stupidity of this fool, absolutely no one in Russia cares about her, but the main thing here is different. You see, with her stupid and incompetent statements, she does not humiliate Russia, she shows disrespect first of all to you, ordinary people living in the EU countries, considering them idiots who do not understand and do not know anything. One character on the forum accused me of disrespecting the EU. So the EU disrespects itself first of all!!!

MVitaly5 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:44 pm

. One character on the forum accused me of disrespecting the EU. So the EU disrespects itself first of all!!!

40 years, that women from your country, come on every boulevards from Germany, Holland, Paris, ect ? To do what ? You should be more humble with country from EU, it's these country that get your women a "better life"...