Ricardo Soli wrote:Isn't about going off topic. It is about your pathological problem being off topic everytime

So it's not about going off topic, but being off topic. Do you realise that you just contradicted yourself in those 2 sentences? That makes me wonder whether you actually had a concept when you started writing or you were just hitting the keyboard randomly and were hoping that something sensible would come out at the end?

It's quite sad that you quoted me, but failed to comprehend what I've written. Read it through again and try to understand it:
"If you are so disturbed by some of my comments - which is pretty understandable, because I usually make a point - just don't reply to them, if you have nothing to say. I always comment topics if I know or have heard something regarding it."

Atisz, I think you are misunderstanding the thinking of the people here and even Pierre (if I may say so).

We here are porn fans and we do not look down on women who do porn. Pierre has mentioned how Svetlana was badly beaten, her nose broken and her face disfigured by her boyfriend (or was it ex-bf) when he found out she had done porn. Jade Flower was also beaten up by her boyfriend for doing porn.

And these are just two cases that Pierre has told us. I know you will agree that in these cases the boyfriends are the criminals. But it is also true that people who make a big deal about porn like "OMG! She did porn, she is so bad, what a slut" etc contribute to an atmosphere where men think that to keep their "honor" they have to beat up their girlfriend if she does porn.

I would prefer that people see porn as normal adult entertainment. If a woman does porn, no big deal. There is no reason for her to lose her job etc, espeically in a country where shooting porn is legal. The only concern should be health i.e. STDs.

And Pierre does not seem like a hypocrite. That is what he is accused of by some others on this forum. His second wife, Tania Russof was doing porn, including having scenes shot by him. He just admitted on the Djiana section, that Djiana is now his daughter in law. (that's what you meant Pierre, isn't it?).

If you want to help women in porn, then I believe the best thing to do is when somebody makes a nasty remark about porn performers, you should stand up for them. That way the atmosphere of hate and shame will slowly disappear. And yes, I do that myself too. I tell people that I would anyday prefer to socialize with a honest pornstar to an unethical businessman.

Arnoldsty, all what you said is true but for sure Atisz can't understand even one word of what you have written !

PW

No dear Arnoldsty, I see everything clearly. As I told several times: I'm not against porn. I'm against exploitation and the reason why people come to Eastern-Europe looking for poor girls with miserable lives.
You have no idea how most of these girls are "discovered" - don't believe they voluntarily apply to become a porn actress. Most of them go to these "castings" in order to become a model (because the so called "agents" advertise themselves as the members of "model agencies"), where they soon face the fact: it is about porn, not fashion. Then it is usually too late to back off - since they already have expectations - and they tend to accept the small amount of money they've been offered for the "casting".
Other girls are collected from the street or from schools by "lady-pimps", former porn actresses. For a girl it's always easier to trust and to believe another girl, than a man. The girl convinces them, that it's going to be fun, they can earn easy money and they'll be stars. Most naive girls (we are talking about 18-22 yo girls here mostly) actually believe this. Some though are avid internet users and of course they can see through all this and say no. But most of these girls aren't from the brain surgeon category and their naivety is almost unlimited. And of course - as I mentioned - they all need money, because even the 1/3 of what's being offered to other girls in Western Europe means, a lot to these girls. The exploitors know this very well, that's why they look for girls in these regions.

Now I know that most users don't think about this - some of them know it, but just don't care - but I do, and this is why I feel like this. I don't expect others to stop, just to think this through: if they really care about some of these girls and don't want to ruin their lives by branding them for a life - because some of these girls won' have the opportunity to move to another country to hide from the society (and it's not guaranteed that they won't be recognised there) - they should stand out against this exploitation by not trying to convince naive girls by all means. There are some girls who are nymphos, who actually thought it through and want to become porn stars - they should be more than enough. They are cheap, beautiful, determined and will probably know how to handle their situation.

I have stood out for girls who did porn and I'll do so in the future. There was a girl who retired to the countryside after she quit, had a baby and got a normal job. Some people thought it was the right time to launch an assault against her, by identifying her on a social networking site. She got into quite a bad situation because the village she lived in was quite small, so everybody knew everybody. Now this is an example that made me think about all this and that I should alert other people as well.

You can't just blame society for being what it is and how its members react, cause most people do believe (as I do too) that working in porn is shameful. At least for a girl it is, just think about it: getting fucked for money. It basically equals to being a whore. Even porn producers think that - they just don't admit it. Now how hypocritical is that?

About those boyfriends you mentioned (while it's certainly not acceptable to beat up women): imagine yourself into their place - what would have you done if you realised your girlfriend played in porn movies? I'm not sure if you'd shake her hand and say: "Well done, I'm proud of you!"

I just read through that topic you mentioned - about this Djiana - and you can see it as well: he won't release her "casting". I wonder why? Maybe because acting in porn movies for a naive woman is not so cool after all, escpecially if she belongs to one's family?

Now we can see how stupid you are ! I said her scene done in my movies will be released of course but only this because I can't do something which is against the respect I have for my son. Are you so dump that you can't even understand that ?
If I was doing it, yes you could accuse me to be a bad man, but seems for you it's normal, so who is the pimp here ??? I think it's you in fact ... and I wish your children will be happy with parents like you !!!

PW

BE WARNED! LONG THREAD!

Atisz, I read your posts in the Bonny Singer thread and here. Point by point reply.

If you believe that women are not sexually expolited in the mainstream media then you are just being willfully ignorant. Read what Terry Richardson was doing with mainstream models. Marilyn Monroe being expolited is also well documented, including her multiple abortions.

I have read how Pierre gets new models. So what he basically does is bait-and-switch. If that is what is really happening, then it is unethical but not illegal. although I know you are worried about the unethical part.

Did you know mainstream modelling agenices also scout public locations for new models. I read a story in New York Times about how Brazilian scouts stand outside high schools and approach girls , 15-16 years old for mainstream modeling. The story showed such a 15 year old girl from a small town. The scout during the interview was touching her hair in a creepy way. He convinced her parents that she could become the next big model. We know not everyone does. So she went away alone to the city. Came back 3 months later crying about missing home. Who knows what happens in these situations. Btw, her parents home was simple but not poor.

There is a mainstream French model who was nude on a catwalk when she was 17 years old, today she is around 23-24. Completely nude except for a hat. Did the designer have to keep her nude in front of hundreds of people to show the hat? Tell me how is that not sexual expolitation of a minor and child porn.

I know there are women who regret doing porn. Olivia Laroche on this very forum has said that. She did not start with Pierre, but is angry at the whole industry. She is unable to break into mainstream modeling because of her past. I feel for her. But coming to the main point:

All this is nothing compared to the sex slavery and sexual abuse happening all over the world. read up the statistics on this subject. It happens everywhere and involves the active participation of a lot of men. We porn fans are harmless compared to the evil that these men carry out. And I mean the customers too.

Read what American businessman Jeffery Epstein was doing. Having underage girls living in his harem and passing them around to important and powerful people to win favors. There is even a photo of Prince Andrew with a 16 year old girl (non-nude). This girl is now 28 and spilled the beans. The man even tried to recurit mainstream actress Nadia Bjorlin when she was 13 years old. But her mother was able to save her.

About the ex-pornstar who was harassed by the villagers. Yes, they were mean to her and she did not deserve it. Maybe its because you saw it firsthand so you are affected about this issue more. But in the bigger picture, this is trivial stuff (again, not being insensitive here) to the real sexual abuse going on.

What if my girlfriend was a pornstar. If it was her past, I would not care, although I would make sure she did not have any STDs. If she did it behind my back without telling me, I would be disappointed that she did not tell me about it and did not trust me. So I would probably break up with her. Probably because you never know what decisions life forces you to make. But I would not hit her.

Btw, what is your definition of porn? Is nude modeling like Playboy, Met-art or femjoy porn to you? Playboy was something that girls from "good families" did not do 50 years ago, but a lot of middle class girls today do it and their parents don't disown them (although they may not be very happy about the choice). Playboy has become mainstream. People and society changes.

Arnoldsty I can just said that :
PW

Arnoldsty, you've completely missed my point.
You are bringing up examples in order to attempt relieving other people of their crimes.
It's very different when you read about something in tabloids or semi-fictions and when you see something with your own eyes. By reading about Marilyn Monroe you can't decide whether it's true or not, but when you see someone doing the horizontal mambo you can officialy call that girl a slut. I don't believe you can't see the difference, you are just trying not to admit it.

Also how can you compare nude posing and getting screwed in front of everyone? And considering Playboy porn? Come on...

All women regret doing porn, it's just different how soon they realise this. There are women of course who are professionals (they are determined and have thought their lives through) and who have no morals (which is ok I guess) and keep on doing porn for decades, but even they regret it deep inside (even though they claim they don't).
Do you know why? Because it's humiliating to get paid for having sex and being called a bitch - it's that simple.

You said "What if my girlfriend was a pornstar. If it was her past, I would not care". Right but what if she'd been doing it while she was with you? Would you be happy about her leading a double life like this? I don't think so.

Problem is many people look at these girls like they were objects and tend to forget that these girls are exactly the same human beings, just like their girlfriends, sisters and other women they respect.

Atisz2 wrote: I just read through that topic you mentioned - about this Djiana - and you can see it as well: he won't release her "casting". I wonder why? Maybe because acting in porn movies for a naive woman is not so cool after all, escpecially if she belongs to one's family?

Read it through again, slowly, try to understand it and then think about it. I was being ironic.
It shows that you respect people who love, but you completely don't care about girls whom you have no relationship with. You treat them like objects. And that is my point...

We don't care !

PW