Dear HotIris,
it's great to read the opinions of a woman, however I don't see how being an "exotic" dancer has anything to do with porn industry (unless you meant erotic dancer and you provide some kind of a service other than dancing – but anyway that's none of my business) and therefore – if you excuse me - I doubt the source of your first-hand experience.
Now it's the second time (and I guess not the last) when I get this "make a difference between the law and morals" lecture and I can only reply my last example: lying is not against the law, still - telling lies is wrong. You can say it's "only" morally wrong, it's still rejected by most. I could come up with another example, but it's quite easily understandable. It depends on you whether you want to understand it or just reject it without thinking about it. If it's the second case, then I can't say anything else about this and I accept that we see things different.
About proving whether escorting is connected to participating in a porn scene, I have to disappoint you: I'm not going to present you examples. If I were to do that, I'd have to expose girls (which I'm against as I mentioned) and therefore do something I do not agree with. But if you ask others who are in porn business, they'll confirm this (and of course they'll add that they are sorry about it, but this is how it works – it's the girls' decision. True, however they forget the fact, that most girls would never try out prostitution, if they hadn't tried out porn before.)
I don't really see what you don't understand about exploitation and how it is related here. It's basically like this (in a very simplified way): the less boss you have, the less people you can blame and the more responsible you are.
Why do girls hide their porn past? For obvious reasons: they hide it because they fear that they'd be branded. I've already mentioned this: you can't expect society to be open-minded to porn if most people think that it's immoral. The minority has to adapt to the majority or of course you have to face the consequences.
Yes, it may seem strange that I only talk about the typical porn girls and why do I see them the only ones who are branded and exploited by society? Let me give you an obvious explanation: If a guy says he had a 1000 girls, what's the usual reaction? Naturally, everyone congratulates and cheers. Now what happens, if a girl says the same – she "had" a 1000 guys? The answer is one word and yes, you've guessed it right: slut. I hope I was able to demonstrate my point.
We already live in a society defined by laws and morals. Sure the law is the one that is above all, but we all have morals – even criminals do, only the standards are different. People who think alike can have the same standards and they will probably all disapprove of the given matter. You can of course expect them to change, but as I said, you can also think about that maybe it's you who should change.
About your last thought: I'm not against porn – I'm not a priest or a holier-than-thou type of person. I'm only against the exploitation of poor women who are shown as sluts, when actually they are only in a desperate need of money. Again I'm talking about the majority of girls and about the ones mainly from Eastern Europe.
Hope I was able to give satisfactory answers to most of your questions.

even in eastern europe there is work other than in porn business. so dont always come with your saying, "oh they are so poor and exploited girls." they want big and easy money - plus fame and stardom, thats all!

Dear Didactic,
Again you question my right to debate, by saying that I impose my views on others. Wrong. I'm just expressing my views. It's very hard to share your opinion about something if you are told to withhold them.
I have a feeling that you failed to comprehend (I don’t know if intentionally or not) my last comment because you ask the same questions again… you try to show prostitution as something that is normal just because it’s mentioned in the Bible. Well let me remind you that in some countries it is still illegal and even in others where it's legal it's also not something to be proud of.
Relingion - or the lack of it - does have a lot to do with being a prostitute or a porn actress, but as I said before, it's only a secondary aspect I can tell you haven't been to any Eastern European countries (or at least not for long enough) because seeming you aren't well informed what is happening around here. Let me tell you that the first (or I wanted to be funny I'd say the first three) reason(s) are why most girls in porn come from Eastern Europe: money, money, money.
From a previous discussion:
"GDP (nominal) per capita of some of the involved countries: (CZ: 21 k, SK: 17.6 k, HU: 15.5 k, RU: 11.8 k, RO: 9.3 k, UA: 3.9 k)"
Now compare them with the GDP of any other Western European country and think it over again, why girls do not enter into porn business from there.
About religion let me tell you this: Eastern European countries are more religious than the western ones. And that is quite something after decades of the Communist era, which actually tried to purge all organized religions (for ideological reasons of course – religious people are harder to control). They managed to achieve some success, but as I said, Eastern Europe is still more religious than West. So this is not a good point.
But of course we can go on and we could mention that even though the girls come from here, who is the main consumer of porn. Yes, you guessed that one right: it's Western Europe.
Why other countries, continents don't count? Again I quote myself from another discussion:
"Asia and Africa because of many reasons: First is (don't care about PC) the girls aren't as beautiful. I know it might sound offensive, but that's just how it is. The second is legal issues, you can't just shoot porn anywhere. Third is the development of infrastructure. Fourth is public safety. Fifth is hygiene and health reasons."
Now in the next paragraph you talk about things mostly related to globalisation and try to extend this topic onto a global scale(which is something that's also worth a debate) but again, it's like trying to lessen some crimes in order to show these crimes in a more favourable way compared to other ones.

didactic wrote:Is it ok to fuck 1000 people in private but when they fuck 100 in public it becomes wrong?

Now there's one problem with this: it's (the "to fuck 1000 people" part) only an assumption. I mean you can't brand every woman and call all of them sluts, right? Believe it or not, there are still girls - and not ugly ones of course - who offer their bodies first to their boyfriends (I mean people they love, not the paying type) - some even to their husbands. Some people laugh about this, some think it's lame, some people find it weird, some people think it's something to be respected.
That's how different we all are, and again we are back to morals.

didactic wrote:We are too judgemental as a society and need to allow people to do what they want without fear of persecution as long as it doesnt affect our lives.

This one we've already mentioned before (at least I have) - it's not just you and me, it's larger than us: it's the society we live in. We can't change it, we have to adapt or face the consequences. If it changes in time and the whole world becomes liberal (which is not the direction where we're heading right now) - then everyone will be happy. This of course would generate other problems - but that's another issue.

didactic wrote:This is that "free will" thing we were talking about again.

But please, understand that this is "not always" about free will as there is a very important factor that seriously influences things and it's called: money. Again you could tell they are sluts (and a few of them could be) but I don't see it that way and this is what this debate is all about.

didactic wrote: Or should they all live in misery

No. They all have the right and the opportunity to study (in most Eastern European countries you don't have to pay to go to unversity) and they can become successful - can even leave the country for better salaries. That is what becomes quite impossible if they enter the world of porn at 18-20 yo and false illusions are being set up in front of them, because - thanks to the internet mostly - they are already branded.
Medical bills, restaurants? Come on. They get used to the lifestyle, the travelling, the luxury till their upkeeps reach the stars and most of them won't be able to save up some money to own even a single estate. Girls can achieve this by "working" about a decade in porn (again just browse them through: most of them does 4-5 scenes - they have the "stigma", but sadly missed the house). Some of them marry rich people who usually see them in one of their feature films, you can guess the end of these kinds of relationship (some of them may work out though).
What a bright future, isn't it?

And don't get me wrong I'd never condemn these girls. I judge them - of course, like the most of the society does. I condemn those who exploit them.

It's so funny to see this Altisz still don't understand, even if his post are 10 pages long next time, I'm a steam-roller and nothing will change me !
And for someone not a fan, finaly you give same ambiance here than the best one !!!


PW

Atisz, ok thank you clarifying that up for me. You say that the motivating factor is money right? Money is the motivating factor for most decisions people make and you cannot persecute those that give them alternative options. For example I worked in Mcdonalds whilst going to University and was paid a pittance others sold drugs and stole (all which are illegal) and they had an easier life. Some got caught and went to jail others didnt but it was choice. Now with regards to porn there are East European women working minimum wage jobs whilst studying (for free) as you said. I have dated a few and the ones I have are very successful without ever doing porn or coming from rich families. Its a matter of choice. These girls who do porn even if there is a level of manipulation make the choice. What you are asking to do is be their moral guidance and say "because you will be labelled and regret it later, dont do it." We cannot as a society make decisions for others that is a dictatorship.

There are people cleaning toilets, burying bodies doing jobs that we consider dirty and they make a small amount of money. A porn girl can make thousands of euros a month and it noones fault if she cannot budget and plan her future with that money. I believe the porn industry may have saved some of these girls from the people trafficing and white slavery markets. Also I am not defending prostitution because it is in the bible, I am saying this is something that you will never remove from human society. You assume that all prostitutes hate their work, this is not true you are again judging things based on your moral perspective. Everyone is different. I also asked the question remove the porn, prostitution what alternative will you offer them for quick money to buy that Gucci handbag or Hello Kitty necklace?. I do not think every porn girl is capable of completing a degree and earning more than five figures a year. (Some maybe but not all). What of the girls who are just greedy is that the pornographers fault too?. You seem to have a view of women as victims and men as their oppressors. Yet I dont see men being paid thousands of euros to have sex.

Yes exactly !!!

PW

Ghandi
you have seen a lot of PW movies and castings it seems.
And you also know Rocco and max hardcore ?
lol
it seems that you love these things more the they do hahahha
I mean come on if I hate somehting I dont see it anymore. or do u just see them to support your cause of helping poor girls ?

I watch them actually just to jerk off hahahahahha

The best thing to do !!!

PW

That's what I'm saying as well: they have a choice, but at the age of 18 they are so easy to be convinced that this just like any other job and mosty of them realizes it too late that it's actually not and there's no way back, once it's done and they are the "stars" of the Internet. And apparently we share the same opinion, that most of them are destined to do greater things.
Porn doesn't help girls avoiding girl trafficking – excluding the few ones who manage to become successful - a € 1000 won't make any difference. There are other ways to prevent this: marketing campaigns to warn girls of the dangers of getting sold to some western european underground brothel.
About the "Gucci handbag and the Hello Kitty necklace" you are absolutely right – however it seems to be in contrast with what you previously brought up (medical bills and stuff). Indeed that's what I've been talking about – they buy things that's been offered to them (things normally they wouldn't buy) that fits this lifestyle - glamour, parties at exotic locations, luxurious environment and other things that all come with this false image generated by those who exploit them. Again you can say that who am I to judge them by what they spend their money on – these are things they really don't need, this is something that helps persuading 18 yo girls to live in a virutal world and forget about real life.
Obviously girls who are just greedy or mad for sex I wouldn't involve here.
About payment you should ask people who are actually in porn business, cause they are the ones who can enlighten you. From what I have heard – males get a higher salary than girls, because they aren't changed too often - they go from movie to movie, so they aren't as disposable as girls are. A girl does a few scenes, "wears out" and the next one comes. But guys are probably going to be the same.
About why I only see girls as victims here's what I wrote to HotIris regarding this:

Atisz wrote: Yes, it may seem strange that I only talk about the typical porn girls and why do I see them the only ones who are branded and exploited by society? Let me give you an obvious explanation: If a guy says he had a 1000 girls, what's the usual reaction? Naturally, everyone congratulates and cheers. Now what happens, if a girl says the same – she "had" a 1000 guys? The answer is one word and yes, you've guessed it right: slut. I hope I was able to demonstrate my point.