I am not a fan of Pierre

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didactic
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by didactic »

Atisz, the problem with your entire argument is you are comparing it to criminal acts which are against the law whereas what Pierre is doing is entirely legel. Your argument therefore is a moral one rather than a legal one. He is not forcing any of the women into performing acts against their will and if we are going to start judging people for seduction and manipulation then the world would have no leaders as they are adulterers, liars and victimise the common people. Pierre seduces women who are in love or in engaged at times what of the man cheating on his wife with a married woman? Should he too be subject to your harsh criticism?. Our society is "free" to an extent and what you are attempting to do is impose your views and beliefs on others. I consider it exploitation when a young woman gets urinated on but I am simply a third party viewer speaking from my moral boundaries what is scary to most is the idea that maybe the women actually enjoy it?. Maybe some of the women are given a chance to do things that they cannot do with their boyfriends, lovers or husbands due to fear of judgement or insult?. This is the problem when imposing ones will on other thats why we have to allow for freedom of expression.

Pierre is also doing his acts on camera which if were criminal could be used against him a court of law, what of the millions of people visiting prostitutes on a daily basis (Most who are forced into this profession?.) They do not ask how the woman feels or if she is comfortable yet when you watch Pierres videos how many times do you hear him ask the women if they are comfortable?. How many times do you hear him tell them to relax?. You are attempting to attack the easiest target because Pierre responds and actually reads his forum. There are producers/directors who actually exploit the women leaving them bleeding some infected with desease and their vaginas and anus torn just so the director gets the footage he wants. This is more common even on American sets and some low budget European ones and if you did some research you would find girls who have worked for these people expressing this. I have never heard any stories of Pierre mistreating women. Is Pierre an asshole?, well on a moral level of what he is doing IN THE OPINIONS of some ofcourse but moral court is "Gods" domain none of us are "God" and morals are subjective. You could like vanilla sex in one position, you partner may want someone to deficate on her face and be covered in feces. This is where choice comes into it. What of all those doing double/triple anal penetration they are exploiting the models or the pain sites where the girls are physically harmed and you see them bleeding and crying all for money.

You too Atisz are being exploited for somene has said you should wake up 5/6 days a week work 8 hrs a day and get paid what someone else decided. Is this against the law?, no this is the normal work life so it is accepted. These women are working, 99% of people do jobs they hate, you will probably find 25% of Pierres actresses that hate their job. All I would guilt him for is the obligation that they fuck him to work but this too happens everyone in music business, hollywood, modelling even 9 to 5 except then there is not even any guarentee they will work. If you have issue with how things are then try and battle the system that was created and which became modern society, attacking one man doing his job sounds more like jealousy rather than attempting to right any wrongs.

Until I see a woman come forward and say she was kidnapped, raped and forced to perform for Pierre and WITH PROOF, I shall stand on the fence and have my own beliefs about right and wrong and not impose them on others. Just because I see urination as explotation does not mean the person who is being urinated on feels the same way. Just because you feel what Pierre is doing is wrong does not make you right, only in your own mind. That is the only place that it matters so if you are getting some satisfaction from your opinions being expressed I do not hold that against you, at least you are stating where you stand. Howoever noone has to listen to you and agree because they have their own moral compass of what right/wrong is.

WFX
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by WFX »

Haha, I think didactic and atisz is THE SAME PERSON!
It seems that didactic has juss a little bit of other point of view so he dont get exposed! Both write in the same style, without any big spellingsmistakes. And it is too much of coincidence that didactic just became ACTIVE forum member here since 2009 and that he only post in thread where atisz debates!

I would bet that if pierre would check didactic's IP, that its also from Hungary and more specific THAT IT IS SAME. :lol:

Good play! :lol:

Atisz
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by Atisz »

Dear Didactic,
take a look at it this way: lying is not against the law, still - telling lies is wrong. You can say it's "only" morally wrong, it's still rejected by most. So I believe that this - as you call it - moral arguement is justified and does have a point.
By saying he didn't force anyone, you prove that you misunderstoodd this whole situation: no one said he was forcing anyone. I posted an analogy before, regarding some girls after World War II., who were so poor that they offered their bodies to the soldiers of the invading armies just for food. So they weren't forced literally, they were exploited, they didn't do it because of their free will - but because they had no other choice.
And this is what I mean when I'm saying you are wrong when stating "Maybe some of the women are given a chance to do things that they cannot do with their boyfriends, lovers or husbands due to fear of judgement or insult" - have you actually thought that through?
Your words would have some merit, if the "subjects" were from Western Europe and you could say, they indeed aren't doing this because of money, but because they are sluts. Because in most Western European countries the salaries are generally 4-5x of the Eastern European ones, so they really have a choice about being a slut or not, having a normal job or not.
When you talk about prostitution you also misunderstand what I meant: I (naturally) disagree with it as well. You however fail to realize that prostitution usually comes after participating in porn: most girls think that when they tried themselves out in porn business, they can also try out "escorting", which is - if we put it this way - basically the same. They wouldn't try it out under normal circmustances, but after trying porn they feel encouraged to do so. So the two things are connected to each other.
When saying that I attacked "the easiest target because Pierre responds and actually reads his forum", you actually can't see the motivations behind all these. Of course you could pretend to be naive and say "hey he is a dedicated fellow and cares about his "fans" and is just doing it out of sheer coolness", but if you don't like waffling about you can actually see that he is just trying to survive in the sinking world of porn thus promoting himself by communicating straight with his consumers (it's called direct marketing if you are interested). So again this is quite transparent and not something one should admire.
After this you come up with real exploitation sites and try to make the false impression that all the exploitation of Eastern European girls are nothing compared to real exploitation (the ones you mention). Again it's like trying to prove that thievery shouldn't be called a crime, because murder is far worse. Sorry, but this kind of reasoning is false - by my standards.
About having a job: right, we are all exploited who aren't self employed or own a company. But when you ask someone about what his/her job is, they'll tell you without thinking and won't feel bad about it. These girls however will try to hide their past - for understandable reasons - and if they are exposed they are shattered. Later on they'll be stigmatized for life and used by others and that is the worst consequence of it all. Of course others who are successful in porn and had done 100s of scenes aren't going to hide their past - quite the opposite - they'll use every given occasion to advertise themselves - for obvious reasons.
On this site however - I think we can agree on this - most girls never become what you could call stars, they are only used for a few scenes, after this they either try escorting or get back into the sad reality, but now they are branded and because of this it and their naivety it will only haunt them for the rest of their lives.

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HotIris
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by HotIris »

Atisz,

I must admit I’ve read Didactic and yours posts with an interest. I feel however, that as a woman, already working in part of the business (exotic dancer), I do have a bit of first-hand experience. While Didactic agrees with most of your views, there is a fundamental difference – he’s not trying to be a judge by itself. He’s firmly presenting his position, but at the same time not imposing it to others and recognizing the basis of our society – that there is an absolute limit man shall not cross – the law! For that he has to be respected – in his world I can easily imagine no wars (conflicts solved in a civilized manner).

Try to ask yourself – are there universal moral rules around the world and why there is a difference between moral and actual law rules at all?

If you put a hypothesis, you have to confirm it, before you can actually use it as a foundation of your reasons. Could you please state some references proving that there is a correlation between porn, escorting and prostitution at all? If you think it is so, it doesn’t necessarily mean it really is so – the world just doesn’t work that way.

Regarding exploitation of employed – are there really any difference between self-employed and employed and even an owner of the company. Namely, they all are depended on someone defining their value – boss to employer, customers (or “market”) to self-employed or the owner. Is world exploitation really on place here?

Aren’t we actually talking about double moral, which actually cause real damage to girls or better is the reason why girls are “hiding” their past? And why are you talking about girls only, not man in the porn? Am I reading posts of a man seeing woman as not equal to man?

Should and can a society really protect a person against its foolishness and if yes, should you be prohibited to buy things you really don’t need and just burden your income, because it’s foolish (for which, following your reasons, you are exploited)? Who decides what’s right or wrong, which things you need and which not? Would you want to live in that kind of society?

Last but not least – if porn is prohibited: Do you think the world would be better place, woman and men would be better of and/or porn would vanish?
Or better – porn is prohibited in some countries – what’s the situation there?

Kisses,
Iris

Kopf
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by Kopf »

Atisz seems to be feminist fanatic who would love to impose her moral views on other people. In German we call these people 'Gutmenschen', its difficult to argue with them as they strongly believe to have all knowledge and wisdom. Nowadays they try with different methods to impose their beliefs on other people either through change of speech (Gender & politially correct wording), quota in companys and government, media manipulation, leftist terror on the streets etc. They start with moral talk like Atisz and continue with more and more aggression...be aware of them.

herkulyu
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by herkulyu »

Bravo HotIris! You're right, but that's because you're part of the business and those who insult Pierre knows nothing!

didactic
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by didactic »

Atisz, you are doing it again you are imposing your views on what is right and wrong and dictating that everyone should feel the same way. That in itself is vanity because not everyone has the same view on things. You gave the example of the exploitation of women because they are in Eastern Europe but prostitution has always been around even the bible has prostitutes who was to blame for that?. You are preaching a utopian philosophy based on how YOU as an individual view the world yet the world is not yours. People are exploited everywhere the division of wealth in the West is increasing every day with the rich having more and the poor less. I do not know where you live but I have been fortunate enough to travel the world and poverty is not something of East European design I think the reason why these countries are more likely to produce women for these industries has more to do with religion or lack thereof. These countries are not very religious countries and that tends to remove the moral guilt from random sexual acts, add the monetary rewards and you have 1000s of young porn starlets.

Yes I am well aware that Pierre is doing direct marketing and regardless of what he says I am pretty sure he is a millionaire but my argument with you is why are you only targeting him?. Is it because he lures so many women to industry?. Is it because he profits from them and moves on?. Companies hire staff when they no longer need you or you have served your purpose they will fire you with no remorse. The world is unfair this is not your fault, my fault or Pierres fault, it has always been a world where the powerful will use the weak and the rich the poor. Governments send thousands of children to die in their material wars, others come home maimed and injured yet there is no uproar. Countries are exploiting countries or how do you think the West stays on top with no or very low natural resoures?, EXPLOITATION. They go to the weaker nations and take them by force or buy them for nothing. Porn actresses are paid more than they would earn in normal jobs is it morally right?, maybe not. But they are paid and used for scenes and when new girls come they are let go. This is the way of the world and before we start dictating our morals on porn directors/producers we may want to look at our elected leaders and those in charge of every facet of our lives.

Also you spoke of the actresses being shunned and ashamed of their past history is this not a fault in society itself? I mean what business is it of others what people do?. Is it ok to fuck 1000 people in private but when they fuck 100 in public it becomes wrong?. You have leaders making their maids pregnant and government members being caught with gay/straight escorts using expenses on cocaine this is all affecting our lives more than who "Girl A" from Bratislava fucks on camera. It shows our priorities are completely wrong. We are too judgemental as a society and need to allow people to do what they want without fear of persecution as long as it doesnt affect our lives. Like I said I personally have no interest in urination or the more serious side which seems exploitive to me, but I cannot impose that on anyone. I can only disagree with it myself as that is my moral basis. My moral basis also questions the women who are "in love" or "involved" being seduced but again I cannot stop someone elses woman from allowing Pierre to fuck her up the ass. This is that "free will" thing we were talking about again. People usually generally do what they want, East Europe is full of women not every one of them is doing porn. You are trying to play Saviour and its a very nice gesture but you can only save people who want to be saved. Are you going to help pay thier medical bills like with Monica Sweetheart needed or help buy their business like with Sandra Romain?. Are you going to send money to their parents like Angel Dark did and put their family members through school?. Or should they all live in misery with nothing because to you and others they are being exploited and what they do is morally wrong?.

Life is about hard choices, from the way you speak and present yourself you sound rather well educated and successful. Not everyone in the world has these advantages and unless you offer a solution to peoples problems you will just be a voice that they will ignore.

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loukios
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by loukios »

this thread becomes really crazy !!!
La femme est sage à l'impromptu et folle à la réflexion

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PIERRE WOODMAN
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by PIERRE WOODMAN »

I was feeling the same, some people have really lot of time in front of them, I wish I could do like that...
Anyway, here anyone can have is own point of view, it's a democratic forum !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

PW
“Nobody is jealous of the losers, only the winners attract the jealousy and hatred of idiots. That explains who my enemies are!”
I feel 2024 will be my best year ever !!!

TravisIII
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Re: I am not a fan of Pierre

Post by TravisIII »

PIERRE WOODMAN wrote:It's a democratic forum !!!
Salut Pierre,
Il fait un putain de soleil à Marseille...je te dit pas!!!
C'est bien que tu laisse les gens s'exprimé.
Allez bon W-E à toi!

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